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	<title>Comments on: The Mystique of BRS Labs</title>
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	<link>http://spotonsecurity.com/2010/02/05/the-mystique-of-brs-labs/</link>
	<description>A closer look at the future of video surveillance</description>
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		<title>By: Meghan Uhl</title>
		<link>http://spotonsecurity.com/2010/02/05/the-mystique-of-brs-labs/#comment-255</link>
		<dc:creator>Meghan Uhl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 May 2010 19:36:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spotonsecurity.com/?p=175#comment-255</guid>
		<description>Hmmm...I haven&#039;t had any trouble getting information from them so far?  We are still in the exploratory process and have not actually seen or been involved with a live install. I am aware that the set up process is longer than with traditional rules based analytics and as I understand it, the &quot;set up&quot; or learning process of their system is ongoing so false alarms can be expected periodically if patterns change like with seasons changing the angle of sun, more rain, snow etc. So initially they would see those things as an anomaly and throw an alarm until a pattern establishes so I can see where that might seem to result in a higher FAR than a rules based system.  I think its such a different approach to analytics that the &quot;sell&quot; has to be different.  FAR, as we&#039;ve always known it, doesn&#039;t necessarily apply to an intelligence based system and customer expectations need to be massaged to understand the differences in the technologies.  The other thing to keep in mind is that the BRS solution is quite a bit more expensive than traditional rules based solutions so I wouldn&#039;t use it in EVERY application for analytics.  If all you need to know is did someone cross over that fence - BRS may not be the right system because rules based systems do that very well and currently, more cost effectively.  I think a combination of the two types of analytics may be useful for most customers. I am familiar with John Honovich&#039;s site and we are a Corp Member.  His reports are great and give us good input when we&#039;re researching a technology.  Some of the issues he raises are concerns we&#039;ll be addressing with our conference call next week.  At this point, we have several gov&#039;t customers who have an interest in analytics and the behavior based system BRS Labs has is of interest to them so any other &quot;behavior&quot; based systems are what I&#039;m interested in looking at. I&#039;m pretty familiar with the rules based technology already.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm&#8230;I haven&#8217;t had any trouble getting information from them so far?  We are still in the exploratory process and have not actually seen or been involved with a live install. I am aware that the set up process is longer than with traditional rules based analytics and as I understand it, the &#8220;set up&#8221; or learning process of their system is ongoing so false alarms can be expected periodically if patterns change like with seasons changing the angle of sun, more rain, snow etc. So initially they would see those things as an anomaly and throw an alarm until a pattern establishes so I can see where that might seem to result in a higher FAR than a rules based system.  I think its such a different approach to analytics that the &#8220;sell&#8221; has to be different.  FAR, as we&#8217;ve always known it, doesn&#8217;t necessarily apply to an intelligence based system and customer expectations need to be massaged to understand the differences in the technologies.  The other thing to keep in mind is that the BRS solution is quite a bit more expensive than traditional rules based solutions so I wouldn&#8217;t use it in EVERY application for analytics.  If all you need to know is did someone cross over that fence &#8211; BRS may not be the right system because rules based systems do that very well and currently, more cost effectively.  I think a combination of the two types of analytics may be useful for most customers. I am familiar with John Honovich&#8217;s site and we are a Corp Member.  His reports are great and give us good input when we&#8217;re researching a technology.  Some of the issues he raises are concerns we&#8217;ll be addressing with our conference call next week.  At this point, we have several gov&#8217;t customers who have an interest in analytics and the behavior based system BRS Labs has is of interest to them so any other &#8220;behavior&#8221; based systems are what I&#8217;m interested in looking at. I&#8217;m pretty familiar with the rules based technology already.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Marman</title>
		<link>http://spotonsecurity.com/2010/02/05/the-mystique-of-brs-labs/#comment-254</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Marman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 May 2010 18:00:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spotonsecurity.com/?p=175#comment-254</guid>
		<description>Meghan,

Thank you for posting. I like seeing a wide range of responses.

I wanted to let you know that BRS Labs has been difficult to get information from. John Honovich, who reviews IP video products for the industry, has been trying to get a unit from them to test for over a year now, but they refuse to let him try it out. They might have very good reasons for refusing, but this makes it more difficult to find out real information. So, I appreciate what you have let us know.

But I also wanted to let you know that just a week ago I came from a university who was testing the BRS Labs system. They were testing their system side-by-side with our video analytics. So I got to see that they have added rules to their new software, as you said. They didn&#039;t have it originally, but their system has it now.

That&#039;s the right move for them. 

I see that they also added the ability to let a user decide when they want to continue seeing an alarm, even if it becomes &quot;normal&quot;. So, they&#039;ve addressed two of the concerns I&#039;ve raised. And now their system is starting to act more like other rules based systems, which as I&#039;ve said makes sense.

By the way, the university who was running their tests were extremely happy with our results. They couldn&#039;t believe how much simpler our system was to set up and that it was working accurately within minutes, without any calibration or tuning.

The BRS Labs takes weeks or longer to learn the environment, while ours does it in a few minutes. Even after weeks, they seem to have far more false alarms than our system, according to the university. When I was there, the person in charge of testing showed me how a beam of sunlight was causing a false alarm for the BRS Labs system. Apparently it thought the beam of light was baggage left behind.

When you ask for other companies doing analytics in a similar way, can you explain what it is you are looking for? 

Or, feel free to write to me privately, if you prefer.

Thanks again for posting and sharing your perspective and the information you have about BRS Labs. It is appreciated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Meghan,</p>
<p>Thank you for posting. I like seeing a wide range of responses.</p>
<p>I wanted to let you know that BRS Labs has been difficult to get information from. John Honovich, who reviews IP video products for the industry, has been trying to get a unit from them to test for over a year now, but they refuse to let him try it out. They might have very good reasons for refusing, but this makes it more difficult to find out real information. So, I appreciate what you have let us know.</p>
<p>But I also wanted to let you know that just a week ago I came from a university who was testing the BRS Labs system. They were testing their system side-by-side with our video analytics. So I got to see that they have added rules to their new software, as you said. They didn&#8217;t have it originally, but their system has it now.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s the right move for them. </p>
<p>I see that they also added the ability to let a user decide when they want to continue seeing an alarm, even if it becomes &#8220;normal&#8221;. So, they&#8217;ve addressed two of the concerns I&#8217;ve raised. And now their system is starting to act more like other rules based systems, which as I&#8217;ve said makes sense.</p>
<p>By the way, the university who was running their tests were extremely happy with our results. They couldn&#8217;t believe how much simpler our system was to set up and that it was working accurately within minutes, without any calibration or tuning.</p>
<p>The BRS Labs takes weeks or longer to learn the environment, while ours does it in a few minutes. Even after weeks, they seem to have far more false alarms than our system, according to the university. When I was there, the person in charge of testing showed me how a beam of sunlight was causing a false alarm for the BRS Labs system. Apparently it thought the beam of light was baggage left behind.</p>
<p>When you ask for other companies doing analytics in a similar way, can you explain what it is you are looking for? </p>
<p>Or, feel free to write to me privately, if you prefer.</p>
<p>Thanks again for posting and sharing your perspective and the information you have about BRS Labs. It is appreciated.</p>
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		<title>By: Meghan Uhl</title>
		<link>http://spotonsecurity.com/2010/02/05/the-mystique-of-brs-labs/#comment-253</link>
		<dc:creator>Meghan Uhl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 May 2010 15:03:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spotonsecurity.com/?p=175#comment-253</guid>
		<description>It sounds to me like none of you have actually talked to the folks at BRS Labs &amp;/or seen a demo.  They do have rules that can be applied and are definable by the user.  Your concerns regarding bad guys trying to fit in and what if the system misses something you thought was important are valid, and challenges for the analytic industry engineers to overcome, but in the meantime - it&#039;s unrealistic to think a human security agent is going to watch 100 cameras and know whats going on in each one of them all the time so....whether its rules based or a combination of behavior &amp; rules based - analytic systems like BRS Labs serve a valuable role.  I would recommend each of you call BRS Labs and request a demonstration and in depth conversation about their products.  Everybody thought the idea of recording video at 30fps in high resolution and storing it for a year for a reasonable cost was a crock....10years ago!  Don&#039;t close your minds to what the future holds for our industry.  BRS may not be the ultimate answer but for right now, they&#039;re the only ones I&#039;ve found who are doing it differently and that should be of interest to all security professionals. If any of you can direct me to other manufacturers doing video analytics in a similar way I would be very interested in the referral.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It sounds to me like none of you have actually talked to the folks at BRS Labs &amp;/or seen a demo.  They do have rules that can be applied and are definable by the user.  Your concerns regarding bad guys trying to fit in and what if the system misses something you thought was important are valid, and challenges for the analytic industry engineers to overcome, but in the meantime &#8211; it&#8217;s unrealistic to think a human security agent is going to watch 100 cameras and know whats going on in each one of them all the time so&#8230;.whether its rules based or a combination of behavior &amp; rules based &#8211; analytic systems like BRS Labs serve a valuable role.  I would recommend each of you call BRS Labs and request a demonstration and in depth conversation about their products.  Everybody thought the idea of recording video at 30fps in high resolution and storing it for a year for a reasonable cost was a crock&#8230;.10years ago!  Don&#8217;t close your minds to what the future holds for our industry.  BRS may not be the ultimate answer but for right now, they&#8217;re the only ones I&#8217;ve found who are doing it differently and that should be of interest to all security professionals. If any of you can direct me to other manufacturers doing video analytics in a similar way I would be very interested in the referral.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Marman</title>
		<link>http://spotonsecurity.com/2010/02/05/the-mystique-of-brs-labs/#comment-197</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Marman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Feb 2010 01:14:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spotonsecurity.com/?p=175#comment-197</guid>
		<description>GS,

I agree that there is a real lack of information about their technology and this is probably a much bigger problem for potential customers than I was addressing.

Thanks.

Doug.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GS,</p>
<p>I agree that there is a real lack of information about their technology and this is probably a much bigger problem for potential customers than I was addressing.</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
<p>Doug.</p>
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		<title>By: GSteen</title>
		<link>http://spotonsecurity.com/2010/02/05/the-mystique-of-brs-labs/#comment-194</link>
		<dc:creator>GSteen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Feb 2010 23:54:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spotonsecurity.com/?p=175#comment-194</guid>
		<description>Doug, thanks for the concise follow-up and I apologize if I came across as snippy.  Without intending to sound pro-BRS Labs, it&#039;s difficult to understand how anyone can provide an objective viewpoint on them when the information at present is so limited.  I&#039;d argue that currently it is too early to lean one way or the other, but will continue to follow your tweets when more data is eventually made available. - gs</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doug, thanks for the concise follow-up and I apologize if I came across as snippy.  Without intending to sound pro-BRS Labs, it&#8217;s difficult to understand how anyone can provide an objective viewpoint on them when the information at present is so limited.  I&#8217;d argue that currently it is too early to lean one way or the other, but will continue to follow your tweets when more data is eventually made available. &#8211; gs</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Marman</title>
		<link>http://spotonsecurity.com/2010/02/05/the-mystique-of-brs-labs/#comment-192</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Marman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 22:12:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spotonsecurity.com/?p=175#comment-192</guid>
		<description>Tom,

Thanks for the comments.

Also, thanks for the point about how bad guys try to blend in. An &quot;abnormal&quot; detector is not going to do well catching them. 

Great point. 

Thanks.

Doug.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom,</p>
<p>Thanks for the comments.</p>
<p>Also, thanks for the point about how bad guys try to blend in. An &#8220;abnormal&#8221; detector is not going to do well catching them. </p>
<p>Great point. </p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
<p>Doug.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Marman</title>
		<link>http://spotonsecurity.com/2010/02/05/the-mystique-of-brs-labs/#comment-191</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Marman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 22:09:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spotonsecurity.com/?p=175#comment-191</guid>
		<description>Kirthi,

Anyone looking for short tweets should consider dropping this blog. I know quite a number of people are connecting to my blog through Twitter, so this might be the issue here. Short comments are best for Twitter.

My blog is about providing in-depth comments, showing why things work or don&#039;t work in the world of video security, and I try to explain it as clearly as possible. I also try to talk about things I haven&#039;t heard mentioned anywhere else before.

I always appreciate the feedback, however.

Thanks.

Doug.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kirthi,</p>
<p>Anyone looking for short tweets should consider dropping this blog. I know quite a number of people are connecting to my blog through Twitter, so this might be the issue here. Short comments are best for Twitter.</p>
<p>My blog is about providing in-depth comments, showing why things work or don&#8217;t work in the world of video security, and I try to explain it as clearly as possible. I also try to talk about things I haven&#8217;t heard mentioned anywhere else before.</p>
<p>I always appreciate the feedback, however.</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
<p>Doug.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://spotonsecurity.com/2010/02/05/the-mystique-of-brs-labs/#comment-190</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 17:16:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spotonsecurity.com/?p=175#comment-190</guid>
		<description>I disagree with the two negative reviews.  There was much more than one point to the review.  Personally, I would think that if something is &quot;abnormal&quot; it probably would be less risky not more risky.  Bad guys try to blend in not stand out.  I never thought about bad guys gaming the system as Doug points out so that&#039;s a good point too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree with the two negative reviews.  There was much more than one point to the review.  Personally, I would think that if something is &#8220;abnormal&#8221; it probably would be less risky not more risky.  Bad guys try to blend in not stand out.  I never thought about bad guys gaming the system as Doug points out so that&#8217;s a good point too.</p>
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		<title>By: kirthi</title>
		<link>http://spotonsecurity.com/2010/02/05/the-mystique-of-brs-labs/#comment-189</link>
		<dc:creator>kirthi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 01:56:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spotonsecurity.com/?p=175#comment-189</guid>
		<description>I think GSteen, is right &#039;bout the write up. To extend it even Doug&#039;s response is long and winding.

thanks,
kirthi</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think GSteen, is right &#8217;bout the write up. To extend it even Doug&#8217;s response is long and winding.</p>
<p>thanks,<br />
kirthi</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Marman</title>
		<link>http://spotonsecurity.com/2010/02/05/the-mystique-of-brs-labs/#comment-188</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Marman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Feb 2010 23:18:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spotonsecurity.com/?p=175#comment-188</guid>
		<description>GSteen: Unfortunately, what you wrote was not a good summary. 

The problem is not with the sharing of intellectual property.

To keep it short: It has to do with controlling your security protection.

Rule based analytics, which they claim are inferior, let you set up exactly what you want to detect and when to alert you. Their system also has rules, but they don&#039;t tell you what they are and only they can control them.

Its like having a car with no means of control except a &quot;right&quot; and &quot;wrong&quot; button. It might be great to show off how incredibly smart the car is - but as soon as you want to go someplace, most people are going to want their gas pedal, steering wheel and brakes back, so they can drive the car, instead of just going wherever it takes them.

That&#039;s a real short summary. But understanding the reason this is such a problem is what needed the explanation.

Thanks.

Doug.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GSteen: Unfortunately, what you wrote was not a good summary. </p>
<p>The problem is not with the sharing of intellectual property.</p>
<p>To keep it short: It has to do with controlling your security protection.</p>
<p>Rule based analytics, which they claim are inferior, let you set up exactly what you want to detect and when to alert you. Their system also has rules, but they don&#8217;t tell you what they are and only they can control them.</p>
<p>Its like having a car with no means of control except a &#8220;right&#8221; and &#8220;wrong&#8221; button. It might be great to show off how incredibly smart the car is &#8211; but as soon as you want to go someplace, most people are going to want their gas pedal, steering wheel and brakes back, so they can drive the car, instead of just going wherever it takes them.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a real short summary. But understanding the reason this is such a problem is what needed the explanation.</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
<p>Doug.</p>
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